Thank you JDW and Bonnie for the concern over liability. You have
probably already seen Erik's response and I put the Disclaimer
in full that we are using at the end of this post.

I should explain for you and everyone else that the disclaimer
should be linked or included in every clues set. If we should
go to an input form I think the submission process will take care
of that. Right now I am doing it manually. But if we should go
to a form, just to be safe I think there should be something
at the top of the form that says something like: "Please read
this before submitting clues." Under that would be a statement
to the clue writer something like this: "Take special care in your
box placement and in the wording of your clues to not create an
unusually hazardous letterbox hunt. If hazards are involved
because nature has provided unavoidable ones then please use
a difficulty rating for the clues and/or the terrain that
accurately reflects that, 'very difficult' or 'extreme', for
example. This will alert the letterbox searcher to the
likelihood of hazards in the area to be searched."

I read this over and it looks not at all like it should literally.
This is not what it would say, but hopefully the gist is coming
through. My thought is that it is more responsible to add this
than to merely state in the disclaimer for the letterbox searcher
to take care and avoid pitfalls. In other words, we can try to
avoid pitfalls at the time of box placement and by trying to
have clear clues that do not put people into places that we
would not have meant them to go. In other words, say there is
a waterfall or cliff nearby. Be careful that the clues do a good
job of keeping the searcher near the box and not near the hazard.
Its conceivable that someone may have there eyes on a map and not
on the area around them. Bear that in mind if your box is in
and unusally hazardous area.

I realize some hazards will be unavoidable, but when we know they
exist we should make sure there is a terrain rating in the high
end even if they are not specifically required to traverse the
hazard. They may happen upon it anyway and it would have
then been good to make mention. Common sense is always a good
measure and I realize we cannot avoid every potentiality/pitfall.
But I don't mind having something up front to remind the clues
writers as well as the searchers to not create undue dangers
for themselves or others.

Bear in mind we're trying to create a fun time
moreso than an extreme adventure. And there may be kids involved,
so I think we should generally avoid areas where there may be a
huge drop-off, and of course never force them to climb a tree or
anything on that order. Does this make sense? I hope I'm not
just being paranoid. Actually, I think I'm trying to react in a
healthy way to JDW and Bonnie's concerns. We ARE in a litigious,
sue-happy society. Any comments?

Dan Servatius (Dan'l)
St. Paul, MN
mailto:elf@pclink.com

PS. I think we would not want anyone to bungie jump over a bunch
of sharp rocks in order to snatch the letterbox out from between
them. And then, of course we would not then want them to bungie
jump again to replace the box after stamping up. Nobody would do
anything like that, would they? I do not think it would hurt to
discuss this from time to time on the list so as new people come
through there will always be a live discussion of this issue.
Some newbies may come up with strange concepts in the interest
of being imaginative/creative. So try to remind me to discuss
this from time to time or just bring it up yourselves when you
think of it.


John DeWolf, West Chester, PA wrote:
>I know we have a standard blurb about reading the waiver of
>responsibility before someone goes out to hunt a box. I'm wondering
>if that's too weak, given the sue-happy society we unfortunately live
>in. Would it be worthwhile to have a statement such as "By hunting
>for this letterbox, you agree to do so at your own risk and neither
>Letterboxing USA, nor the author of these clues, assume any
>responsibility for your actions as outlined in..."
>Am I being paranoid? Has this been covered inthe past?

Bonnie McLaughlin, Leverett, Mass. wrote:
>For what it's worth I looked for waivers in a couple of hiking group's
>web sites. I didn't find any sort of waiver at the Appalachian Mountain
>Club, either on their home page or the Berkshire chapter's site:
>http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~berkamc/
>However, the New England Hiking Group does have a disclaimer...here is:
>DISCLAIMER
>The New England Hiking Group is a group of people interested in becoming
>involved in outdoor activities in our area. But, of course, certain
>activities can be dangerous, and there is the possibility that you can
>be injured. No one in the Group can or will be held liable for any injury
>or any financial or other loss which may occur during a group activity.
>It's best for you to evaluate your abilities and physical condition
>before participating in any outdoor activity, be it with the Group or
>on your own!
>That's copied from http://welcome.to/nehg
>Do we have any lawyers in our group?


Here is the actual Waiver we are using. Yes, it was discussed at length
last fall, and I believe one or two people sought legal advice.
WAIVER OF RESPONSIBILITY AND DISCLAIMER

Letterboxing, like any outdoor sport, carries the risk of unforseen
hazards. "Letterboxing USA", and "The International Letterboxing Club"
support a policy of not knowingly placing letterboxes in areas that will
create undue risk to the letterbox hunter. However, as conditions may
vary, it is the responsibility of the letterbox searcher to become
thoroughly familiar with the conditions in the area to be searched,
to adequately prepare for those conditions, and to conduct oneself
safely and responsibly with respect to those conditions and with respect
to his or her personal abilities and limitations. "Letterboxing USA",
"The International Letterboxing Club" and the individual letterbox
sponsers assume no liability for events which may occur related
directly or indirectly to one's searching for a letterbox.

Do not let children hunt for letterboxes unsupervised.

By reading and utilizing the letterbox clues posted on this web site,
you acknowledge the above conditions, and accept responsibility for
your own actions, and agree to hold non-liable the clubs and clue
writers, and further, agree to provide this disclaimer to any person
with whom you share these letterbox clues.

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